Curse

Night Raven · Nov 12, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Thanks for the poll!

I think the change to the AoE was bound to happen sooner or later. It was kind of weird to see enemies getting hit by a meteor shower and not moving away. But like Darkest said, the AI is over-reacting.

The downside of this patch is that my Pyro is ignored almost everywhere now. And say i just ascended!

I don't mind making some changes to my build since adapting is a part of any MMO. But i don’t like the idea of converting completely to air or stop using my Pyro just because of a patch...

Well, that's my two cents!

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Thanks for the poll.

The only real problem is that it renders any area effect spells with a duration useless in fighting monsters.

These spells should either be edited so that they do damage as if the monster were in that area the the whole time, or the super AI should be taken back away.

Say it's a damage of 16 for 10 seconds at attribute level X. It should become an instantaneous hit of 160 at X attribute level. That would be what I mean in the above statement. Or, you could make the spell track it's original target.
That would be cool actually, especially in PVP, people would not want their teamates running next to them if they have fire raining down on them, that guy would have to just run away as to not anger his teamates.

If you take an AI, and make it just as smart and cunning as any skilled player, with added powers, and instantaneous reflexes, well, that's unfair to all skilled players, not to mention all of us who are not perfect.

There are several monsters that come out of no where, and in mass numbers sometimes. That is what I meant by added powers. The AI never has to click, or have a "fat finger", the AI can also flawlessly navigate around other items and objects. The AI also never had real life distractions, the phone ringing, someone showing up at the door, or spill a coke on their desk, or get a crick in it's neck or leg and has to move a little, or had a spider crawl up it's leg in the middle of a fight.

If you want the monsters to act more realistically, (edited for pointless example) give them rites to roam anywhere on the map, in groups just as large as the possible parties, in any given area. Let the monster "see" us as soon as we can see them walking. Why not let the AI monsters do missions and act as if they're actually laying siege to ascalon. That would be as realistic as stepping out of the way of spells. (sarcasm, don't flame, or consider it a troll, i'm just point out that there are points of realism it's not cool to pass)

I kinda figured the enemy was highly bestial and willing to take as much damage as necessary if it can kill you or die trying.

FaytMaker · Nov 12, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

yay a poll =D...and I also agree that there should be some kind of hesitation that monsters dont like sprint right out of the aoe...kinda makes every aoe in the game absolutely pointless

Mysterial · Nov 12, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

the AI can also flawlessly navigate around other items and objects

Well, maybe in other games it can, but in this one you can put a single player in the way and the AI will be unable to navigate around it. Many a ghostly hero has been stuck this way.

(Sorry, I know it's a little off topic, but since we're talking about AI here, might as well put in another point about how bad it is at navigating dynamic obstacles

)

Lag Hell · Nov 12, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

great idea to run a poll, thx ind ^^

Sir Edri · Nov 12, 2005, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Thanks Inde for the Poll

name-Dan · Nov 12, 2005, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocens Imperceptus

Well.. Personally I farm griffins and minotaurs outside of augry alot.

I dont really make too much money too fast, or control the economy in any way. I mainly did it because it was fun.

Now what do i have? i can't get more then 8 monsters to follow me, when i used to enjoy killing 20-30 at once? I realize some people might call this imbalanced, but it relies on exact timing and quick thinking if you dont want to die in one wave of attacks. I found this gameplay very enjoyable, now however i can't kill any monsters enjoyably. I wouldn't mind monsters scattering from AoE spells, but having them only follow you for about 5 seconds is bull... uh... fecal matter.

But... I do actually on second thought love the idea of this for running. I bet i can easily make the droks run now, so i guess that can be my new money source, (but not enetertainment)

It was totally fun way to earn money and to show my friends wat you can do with the correct set of skills and timing. Now its just silly and also have to spam ctrl-target just so that henchies will continue attacking the same target(If you don't want to aggro more mobs don't bring Orion with you). Guildwars was the game for me until last thursday really and was even convincing my friends to buy the game (even forced one of my friends to get a headset so we can play more effectively with teamspeak) but now even I am having a hard time trying to convince myself that this game is still worth playing. But hey at least me and my friends are going out today instead of playing.

quetzalcoatl · Nov 12, 2005, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I think a very big question was missed on the poll. That being that one time damge spells even if they affect multiple targets should not be considered AOE spells. Since I know of no human player that will run when hit by a fireball,but the monsters sure will.

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

Well, maybe in other games it can, but in this one you can put a single player in the way and the AI will be unable to navigate around it. Many a ghostly hero has been stuck this way.

(Sorry, I know it's a little off topic, but since we're talking about AI here, might as well put in another point about how bad it is at navigating dynamic obstacles

)

Sorry, that wasn't the point I was making.

Say, you're running for your life, we've all done it sometime or another.
you are running along a wall or a ravine, you see some things to the side that come close to the wall, but there's a gap that's about 4 or 5 of your characters wide, you get there, and boom, you can't move through. The monsters catch up.

Or the game lets you walk completely through some rubble that's larger than you are, quite often, then, when running away, you run into a rock you could easily step over, and you get stuck. The monsters catch up again.

linh · Nov 12, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Thank you for the poll. I agree with this update except the AI improvement because some skills will be not useful and it makes henches and monsters running around, even look stupid,not smarter.

Korg The Unfriendly · Nov 12, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

the only problem with the patch is the AoE nerf... u now have 2 cast a slow spell and an AoE to hit anything.... and mobs will still get away from it. If Anet is goint 2 do this then AoE energy cost should be reduced and/or mobs should only start running after the spell is in effect and not as soon as it starts casting

nerf it by all means... it will open up the game for other ele spells and more creative charracters... but dont completely destroy the effect.

Monk AoE should remain nerfed... it kills invincimonk effectiveness and gives monks a great new method for avoiding damage when all but one monster agros on them. + less W/Mo

Oh... henchies should not cast AoE anymore... for obvious reasons

Kep · Nov 12, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Yay, now henchies might not be stupid enough to get themselves killed by standing next AoE Dmg

Finally Henchies are more intelligent than Iway Teams, there still easy to take down with AoE dmg. Mark of pain ftw, Energy Surge ftw etc

entropy · Nov 12, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

no compromising ever.

Mellia Darkstar · Nov 12, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

I enjoyed playing gw and recommended that game to so many people.... After, I played last night... I hate it... I dont want to even play it... And no i wont compromise, if they can't offer what I look for in a game, another game will! They only run around like someone cut off the head of a chicken, PvE went to PvP....... and AI didn't help the henchmen they only run around now.

Nocens Imperceptus · Nov 12, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Well... I dont mind the monsters running from the AoE. I think its a great idea. Granted there are bugs, but i trust taht the GW devs will fix them.

I do think, that the decreased doppleganger level is retarded, as well as monsters letting up on chasing you. THey already did eventually, now they only chase you about two feet.

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mellia Darkstar

I enjoyed playing gw and recommended that game to so many people.... After, I played last night... I hate it... I dont want to even play it... And no i wont compromise, if they can't offer what I look for in a game, another game will! They only run around like someone cut off the head of a chicken, PvE went to PvP....... and AI didn't help the henchmen they only run around now.

Same here. I've been on GW about a month. Played Knight Online before, but it well it blew, and after I quit, It quite litereally blew up, alot of family is extremely preterbed.

I think a good number of them are going to be buying GW now, and they're going to blame me that's it's not as cool as I said it was. Hopefully, the designers and people in charge will listen to people's uproar and make the people happy, the complete opposite of KO, which only uses censorship and diversionary tactics to sidestep the real problems.
(edit, this was two posts, that's agasinst rules, AND I found I can delete my own posts, that's cool, great forum)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocens Imperceptus

Well... I dont mind the monsters running from the AoE. I think its a great idea. Granted there are bugs, but i trust taht the GW devs will fix them.

I do think, that the decreased doppleganger level is retarded, as well as monsters letting up on chasing you. THey already did eventually, now they only chase you about two feet.

I don't mind the mosnters not chasing a person that far. It will tone down the massive amount you have to pay runners to get places or help to rid the game of runners in the first place, which is a larger money maker than farming as far as I've seen.

kareel · Nov 12, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Honestly, I'm amazed that people have shown the sorry lack of faith in A-net that they have.

Arenanet has ALWAYS shown an amazing amount of acceptance towards the views of the players, and they DO read these boards. Making yourself heard CAN change the game, if you can come up with a cogent presentation as to why. One that doesn't involve, "BUT I LIEKD BEIING RICH AND I DONT WAN 2 USE TAHT

" or a similarly inane and entirely unhelpful statement. A lot of us could easily come up with an effective build that's not damaged by the AoE kill (think: easily spammable non-AOE spells... or AOE non AOE spells... you know the ones. Try mo/n instead of mo/w or mo/e instead of mo/me, if you want to farm. Believe it, I've been doing it since BEFORE the patch, and if you think about it, it's a HELL of a lot faster than mo/w.). It's still possible to enjoy the game and continue farming the way you used to, you just need to alter your build a little. For those of you complaining about eles being useless, there are tricks that have been used in PVP for a long time to pin someone down so you can AoE them to death without them fleeing. Use them. They work, and they won't suck up enough points to hamper your damage. Adapt, learn, become strong. Change is NOT always evil.

Now, if you're not satisfied with that, and you do NOT want to change, you're certainly not alone. Keep in mind that if you really want to get things changed, the best way to do it is to be intelligent about it. Say what's wrong, but more than that, say why it's wrong, and if you can, suggest a better way to solve the problem. I've said it before, I'll say it again. People who WORK at A-net read these damn boards. You can make a difference, but if you want to have your voice given credence, you're going to have to do it in a way that doesn't make you look like a complete ass. People don't listen to raving lunatics, they listen to rational people. Upset rational people, but rational nevertheless.

Keep in mind that people ARE listening. Just make yourself heard. Guildwars IS your game... as long as you want it to be.

That's my two cents.

~ Kareel Deathstalker

Takeko Nakano · Nov 12, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Basically the idea was great. Why would monsters just stand under a hailstorm of fire & brimstone? Answer is that they wouldn't.

Hoever, I have noticed some problems. Monsters will run away too quickly for my taste. If you use a smiting skill, you can almost chase them. I think the AI is too sensitive to damage - sometimes they'll even run away from my normal attacks, regardless of whether they're healers, warriors, etc. If ArenaNet can tone this down, so that they won't run from conventional attacks unless they're low on health, etc then this will be a very sensible update.

I do think AN will make a tweak, but it will be very bad for GW if they don't.

DarthShadow · Nov 12, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

If you want the monsters to act more realistically, you might make them want to run away when they're getting their butts kicked, or give them rites to roam anywhere on the map, in groups just as large as the possible parties, in any given area. Let the monster "see" us as soon as we can see them walking. Why not let the AI monsters do missions and act as if they're actually laying siege to ascalon. That would be as realistic as stepping out of the way of spells.

That would be like the "Beastmen" fighting over the areas in Final Fantasy XI... They can see in their POV, or if you touch them. SOME run when they are near dead. Some attack in groups, and some don't attack at all.

I'd like the AI to be right, but changing the game engine would be unnecessary.

*laughs* If we could have a game with AI THAT good then at the beginning of the game in pre-searing we could kill all the enemies around the burning device and prevent the "future". (Hint: Guild Wars 2) I actually did that >.<(Without the preventing the future part, but I got runes and a max damage bow! I wasted alot of time for boredom's sake >.>

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthShadow

That would be like the "Beastmen" fighting over the areas in Final Fantasy XI... They can see in their POV, or if you touch them. SOME run when they are near dead. Some attack in groups, and some don't attack at all.

I'd like the AI to be right, but changing the game engine would be unnecessary.

*laughs* If we could have a game with AI THAT good then at the beginning of the game in pre-searing we could kill all the enemies around the burning device and prevent the "future". (Hint: Guild Wars 2) I actually did that >.<(Without the preventing the future part, but I got runes and a max damage bow! I wasted alot of time for boredom's sake >.>

*another edit* If the AI were that good, the char defenses would be well too many to overpower.
We would get roasted(seared), and they would attack ascalon in force, not in groups of, what, 3-5?
lol

I just edited that post, mainly stating that it was sarcasm, that certain points of realism aren't cool to try to match. I never played FF, so you'd have to be more descriptive. I noticed in some posts that monsters are also running from regular attacks, so I took out my point about the monsters running away when injured badly.

I was pre-debating the adding of intense "realism", such as to :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

Basically the idea was great. Why would monsters just stand under a hailstorm of fire & brimstone? Answer is that they wouldn't.

They're called monsters for a reason. Maybe they're on 'roid rage and WANT YOU DEAD. There are real animals in the world that will not relent their grip if they get a hold of your foot or something, even in death. Savage creatures that will put up with a good bit of torment and grief just to know you're still bleeding. Insanity, different pain receptors, drugs, not pcp, but the likes of peyote and such, there are all sorts of reasons a foe wouldn't let up on a person that's made them angry.